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Guild structure suggestions and discussion

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Lynnutte
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se unió: Oct 30 2007

Please post all your guild structure ideas. Please feel free to discuss all the good and bad points as you see it to all ideas and suggestions. I only ask that we all keep it civil and not personal. I really don't think I need to say that here, but I'm trying to cover all my bases. :D So, let the discussion begin!

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

Nanouk_Metal
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se unió: Mar 1 2008

Suggestion:

re: Guild Structure

Maybe if we have somebody who is good at creating visual document, it might be a good idea to create two such documents for an overview of the structure of the Guild.

It would have to be a person who knows/understand the Guild and could create that document.
1- First, a document with the available positions. (no names) and to which names could be added in a...
2- Second copy with added member(s) name(S) filling those positions.

Here is an example of what I mean. (only one of many possibilities)


Marten
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se unió: Nov 8 2007

Let's start with a quick analysis of the other guilds' structures. If some of this information is incorrect, then it is because the guild in question has incorrect information on their website, and I absolve myself of all responsibility. 8) Guild of Greeters Described on page The Guild Masters

  • Grand Master: Indy
    • Webmaster: Ayle
    • Forum Admins: Ja'de & Kurtg1265
    • Membership Coordinator: Rex Havoc
    • Server Admin: Tech
    • Treasurer & Council Support: Tijara

Working with Ja'de and Kurtg are are various forum and chat moderators, but aside from those positions, the rest of the guild structure is flat, filled with Greeters. Guild of Cartographers Described on page Guild Roster - Members

  • Grand Master: Aiden Davis
    • Guild Masters: Nalates and Gadren 
    • Guildswoman: Julie
    • Guildsman: Earthwizard

     

I know for a fact the above information is out of date because Gadren and Earthwizard are no longer involved in the GoC. Anyway, all other members of the guild are listed as Apprentices. Guild of Maintainers Described on page Guild of Maintainers Home Page

  • Guildmaster, Communications Department: MustardJeep
  • Guildmasters, Creative Department: Jishin and Dot
  • Guildmaster, Personnel Department: Frisky Badger
  • Guildmaster, Submissions Department: Montgomery
  • Guildmaster, Training Department: Andy Legate
  • Webmaster (& Forum Master): Nynaveve

The above information may be a little out of date; believe Montgomery has stopped working within the group. I'm not certain how the group resolves issues which affect all members, but I would guess they use a council format similar to the GoW (which I'll describe next). Guild of Writers Described on page Guild Councilors

  • Councilor of Building: Aloys
  • Councilor of Sound and Vision: ChaosSong
  • Councilor of Tool Development: Hoikas
  • Councilor of Forum Management: Kato
  • Councilor of Public Relations: Paradox

The Guild of Writers' structure is flat; the group operates (per their name) as a council for guild decisions.

Marten
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se unió: Nov 8 2007

Next, let's look at our current roles. We're not really structured... but we do have roles. Roles are a little more distributed in our group, so some names will pop up multiple times... ideally we should crunch this down to a shorter list for primary responsibilities. I believe what we're really missing right now are head liaisons for the Group and Service liaisons. If we had that, I think we'd have a workable structure. Either Shimmer and/or Lynnutte could act in that role... but I think they have enough on their plates. I think we need to promote someone within the group. Not me, my plate's full for now, too. Guild of Messengers From the About & FAQ page OR:

  • Webmistress: Sophia
  • Website/Forum Admins: Al'Kaera and Szark
  • Newsletter Publicist: Lynnutte
  • Forum Moderators: Nanouk_Metal and Theremin 
  • RSS Feed Moderator: Szark
  • Group Liaisons:
    • BeyondUru Liaison: (Crier)_Nanouk
    • Guild of Maintainers Liaison: Leonardo
    • Guild of Writers Liaison: Marten
    • MOUL Forum Liaison: Szark
  • Service Liaisons
    • GoG/GoMe Calendar: Lial
    • Rel.to: Marten
Nanouk_Metal
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se unió: Mar 1 2008

re: your two above posts

Amazing work Marten. We should call you, Userfriendly Marten. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

I visited your above links and GoG's layout was my favorite. A very very user friendly and clear and easy, all access layout. Their choice of colors was perfect for me old eyes. 8)


Narym
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se unió: Nov 20 2007

I don't think J'nathus is active here anymore. He isn't really active over at TCT either, as he stepped down as Editorial Producer after Podcast 32.

I'm happy to do stuff, just shove me somewhere, and I'll get stuff done :P

And what do you mean by 'head' liaison. Do you just mean someone who co-ordinates the rest of the Group/Service Liaisons, or something else entirely?

I was thinking earlier (I don't know if this would be feasible at all) but to have Guildmasters or whatever in charge of the different media. So, a Guildmaster of Audio, Print, RSS, Video, etc. That way, this person can co-ordinate with the relevant affiliates in terms of GoMe advertising, as well as (maybe) helping to train GoMe 'cadets' who can be sent on 'internships' to the various affiliates.

Oh, and Shimmer. Have you gotten my FAQs yet? :P

EDIT: Oh, I see them. Although I noticed you changed some of the commands. I did test most of them, and found that they work. What I sent you should be correct. IE I'm fairly certain you don't need a closing paragraph line tag. Remember the RSS post called 'Moo'? That was me testing this stuff out :P

Szark
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se unió: Ene 12 2008

I am with Nanouk (from the not so north hehe) The Greeters one is more personal and friendly looking. Inviting is the word. Not sterile.
Szark

Ps I wouldn't call myself a Liaison, I just check the site for news. And that I don't seem to be doing well at.
Szark

Lynnutte
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se unió: Oct 30 2007

We do have reporters too, but that would be just about everyone. lol. Maybe that is what we should call any new members when they first join. I too am confused about what a head liaisons for the Group and Service liaisons is. Also, I feel we do need a way to make decisions that affect the whole group. I think it would be great if we had a 5 five member leader group, for lack of a better term. It could be as small as 3, but I like the idea of 5. My reasons are

1. better discussions on the topic at hand.
2. more ideas thought of on how to solve a problem should one come up
3. there will never be a tie.

If you have more than 5 people, it just gets rediculous and everything gets bogged down with discussions and nothing ever gets down, or it takes to long to get done to be effectual. At least this has been my experience.

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

BladeLakem
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se unió: Nov 1 2007

I'm a bit of a broken record here, but I think we need central leadership - Guild Masters. Two or three (more would become far too unwieldy). There need to be people to drive projects both old and new with authority to make decisions.

To run with Marten's idea, these leaders should have areas of responsibility. Here's two that I can think of - Services and Liaisons. Their responsibility would be to keep their respective areas moving, active and on task.

The Services Guild Master would focus on providing and supporting services from the GoMe. That would include making sure that current services are staffed and continue to work well, as well as coming up with ideas for new services, finding people to staff them and implement them. This would include the Website, RSS Feed, Newsletter, Rel.to, events calendar, forums, etc.

The Liaisons Guild Master would focus on maintaining the connections with the community and gathering information. They would make sure there are people gathering news from various forums and reporting them, make sure that groups that want a liaison have one and that they are in active communication, make sure someone is taking on publicity for GoMe activities, make sure that someone is talking to affiliates.

As an aside, I'd really like to be careful about people taking on lots of different duties. We're all people who have a wide variety of interests and like taking on projects. But individuals need to be able to focus on smaller areas so that they can do well in that area. It's far too easy to get involved in all sorts of projects and be spread too thin (I do this constantly, it seems).

Lynnutte
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se unió: Oct 30 2007
Quote:
It's far too easy to get involved in all sorts of projects and be spread too thin (I do this constantly, it seems).

Join the club Blake. :lol:

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

Marten
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se unió: Nov 8 2007

My concept behind a 'head' liaison...

If any group that doesn't have a liaison wants a single point of contact with the GoMe, if anyone wants to know THE first person to talk to, in order to approach our group - the head liaison would be the person to talk to.

It doesn't prevent the other groups from talking to others within GoMe... but it provides a point of dependability and authority (I'm using this word very carefully). If a group gets two different answers from two people within our group about the same topic... the head liaison resolves the difference of opinion.

Another example: If one of the other liaisons is on vacation and their respective group wants to request an audience, the responsibility falls upon the head liaison. The head liaison could also delegate* responsibility; head liaisons need vacations, too.

The purpose of the structure is to ensure that things get done, and that people can get a clear answer instead of getting different responses from different GoMe members and not knowing which answer is the correct/reliable one.

* The position of "authority" doesn't give the head liaison the ability to tell others what to do. It only gives them the ability to ask others to take on responsibilities. And it remains the responsibility of the head liaison to ask a trustworthy person.

BladeLakem
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se unió: Nov 1 2007
Lynnutte wrote:
Quote:
It's far too easy to get involved in all sorts of projects and be spread too thin (I do this constantly, it seems).

Join the club Blade. :lol:

There's a club? O hgreat, can I join? I'll help organize meetings and design a website with forums and start a bake sale and... oh wait... :oops: Old habits die hard, it seems. ;)

Marten wrote:
* The position of "authority" doesn't give the head liaison the ability to tell others what to do. It only gives them the ability to ask others to take on responsibilities.

I think there needs to be some authority involved, if minimal. A perennial problem in most Myst communities in my not-so-humble opinion is that people are afraid to go ahead with projects because they don't feel they have the right to do so. People spend a lot of time trying to get a definitive consensus. But the buck has to stop somewhere.

shimmerillion
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Messenger
se unió: Oct 29 2007

Here's my first thought off the top of my head. This utilizes the academic premise of a "chair," who is a respected elected leader of a group of peers. The "chair" position is interesting in that it can change from year to year, depending on workload, etc., without negative repercussions to those involved.

Guildmaster or mistress, facilitates the success of everyone else.

Services Chair, elected from the Project heads
- Project head (newsletter)
- - - Newsletter team
- Project head (rel.to)
- - - Rel.to team
- Project head (etc.)

Affiliates Chair, elected from the Affiliate heads
- Affiliate head or liason (TCT)
- - - TCT team
- Affiliate head or liason (CCN)
- - - CCN team
- Affiliate head or liason (etc.)

Liason Chair, elected from the Liasons
- Liason (GoW)
- Liason (GoMa)
- Liason (etc.)

Membership Chair, also known as HR
- Reporters

(Narym, I changed a couple of things on the FAQ just to use updated code - instead of , etc. The older code does work, but I figured we might as well be consistent. :P )

Shimmerillion | KI 01204798 | rel.to/gome

shimmerillion
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se unió: Oct 29 2007
BladeLakem wrote:
I think there needs to be some authority involved, if minimal. A perennial problem in most Myst communities in my not-so-humble opinion is that people are afraid to go ahead with projects because they don't feel they have the right to do so. People spend a lot of time trying to get a definitive consensus. But the buck has to stop somewhere.

I agree.

Shimmerillion | KI 01204798 | rel.to/gome

Narym
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se unió: Nov 20 2007

No probs shimmer. It's been years since I used HTML, so I was bound to be using slightly outdated stuff :P Thanks for the edits

And I really like your layout Shimmer. I thinkj it could actually work. So there's the five chairs there, with each of their different 'areas' that they represent...

The more I think about it, the more I like it :D

Lynnutte
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se unió: Oct 30 2007

BladeLakem wrote:

Quote:
But the buck has to stop somewhere.

I agree!

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

BladeLakem
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se unió: Nov 1 2007

I like your structure, shimmer. I'd support that plan. Heck, I'd even volunteer to help (looks around to see if lightning strikes me - or my wife strikes me...)

BladeLakem
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se unió: Nov 1 2007

So we have three more chair positions to fill. Who's taking the lead on getting the voting done?

Marten
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se unió: Nov 8 2007

I will contact Thend and ask if he wants to continue to help manage our voting process, as I will be voting for remaining chair positions so it seems a bit odd if I'm also collecting the votes.

Szark
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se unió: Ene 12 2008

Btw does Kerryth know what happening. As in eligible to be elected. And do we have more candidates?
Szark

Narym
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se unió: Nov 20 2007

We can get in touch with Kerryth about when we intend to vote again. The Liaison chair candidates were Szark, Nanouk, Kerryth, and Marten (vote only_

Lynnutte
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se unió: Oct 30 2007

If Thend isn't available, I can gather the votes on the Liason chair since I can't vote. I can also be impartial because I like all 3 candidates equally as well. :D

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

Marten
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se unió: Nov 8 2007

Update

First, Thend has agreed to be impartial vote handler for the remaining chair positions. He has not committed to handling anything beyond that. He would like to handle things in this way: At the MOUL forum, I will send Thend a PM listing who is eligible to vote for which position, and who are the allowed holders for those positions. Thend will collect votes through PMs at the MOUL forum.

Second, Lial wants to know more about the position for which she may be running.

So, we need to sketch out a little blurb to define what the chairs position are about.

As I see it, there isn't much responsibility at the moment... aside from helping keep communication between our component groups working smoothly.

For example, the service liaison would keep up to date on what all of the service members are doing, and what they need; he or she would be the mouthpiece for that group to raise awareness of new projects or requests for assistance, and would be the earpiece to pick up on guild information that might affect any of the services. This does not mean the individuals cannot speak or listen on their own, but the service chair holds the responsibility to ensure the service groups are heard and are listening.

As a specific example, Lial has mentioned she'll need someone else to manage the calendar for a while. A chair would be responsible for helping a person delegate any responsibilities to another person when needed. Obviously, if the chairperson is going to be unavailable him or herself, then that position and its responsibilities would be delegated to another person.

Does that sound about right? Thoughts?

Lynnutte
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se unió: Oct 30 2007

That sounds about right to me. I think we need to write up job descriptions for all the chair positions and post them in a prominent place so people looking for someone to handle something will know who to talk to without having to talk to everyone to find the person incharge of it. Also, so that people like me who seem to be having a bad case of brain fog, will be able to remember what their jobs are. :lol: Possibly put it in the announcements section, or dare I suggest it, make seperate sections for each chair so they can keep track of their business and talk to those they work with, without having to wade through everyone elses stuff. But that may also be an idea to put on the back burner until we have more members.

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

BladeLakem
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se unió: Nov 1 2007

I think I see the positions a bit different than the rest of the people here, but that sounds about right. I'd personally like to see the description (and understanding of the positions) include that activity should be proactive.

Nanouk_Metal
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se unió: Mar 1 2008
Lynnutte wrote:
That sounds about right to me. I think we need to write up job descriptions for all the chair positions and post them in a prominent place so people looking for someone to handle something will know who to talk to without having to talk to everyone to find the person incharge of it. Also, so that people like me who seem to be having a bad case of brain fog, will be able to remember what their jobs are. :lol: Possibly put it in the announcements section, or dare I suggest it, make seperate sections for each chair so they can keep track of their business and talk to those they work with, without having to wade through everyone elses stuff. But that may also be an idea to put on the back burner until we have more members.

I agree that we need good job descriptions.

I like you idea about separate sections for each chair, specially if GoMe Forums is supposed to become a/the main "hub".


Narym
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se unió: Nov 20 2007

are we going to vote for the other positions, then?

And what about the reporters chair? Are their any people/activities/things that fit don't fit under the other categories that could be candidates, so we can at least fill this chair? It could be a while before we have enough random people to consider them as reporters, methinks

Lynnutte
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se unió: Oct 30 2007

I think we need to hold off voting for any more positions until the job descriptions are finished. That way people know what they're getting into before hand. lol

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

BladeLakem
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se unió: Nov 1 2007

I think at this point that job descriptions are goingto have to be short and vague because, besides one or two specific things, the GoMe isn't doing a very much at the moment. Part of the job of these initial chairs is to define how the Guild is going to continue. So 'work with other chairs and members to define your area and your role' is going to be a primary responsibility.

It's hard to let people know what they are getting into before hand because we are not sure what we are doing. So, let's just keep if vague for now with a mandate rather than a job description:
- GuildMaster: Ensure the Guild as a whole works smoothly and accomplishes something.
- Services Chair: Make sure the Guild does things for the community
- Affiliates Chair: Ensure that the affiliates are active and communicating with each other and the community.
- Liaisons Chair: Make sure the Liaisons are communicating actively with their groups and passing the information around, as well as make sure all of the important groups have liaisons
- Reporters Chair: Make sure people are gathering information and make sure that information is disseminated

Beyond this, it's all subject to change as we figure out stuff, so let's not spend all our time trying to define it.

I'm not sure there is anyway I can say this without sounding angry and pushy, so I'm not going to try too hard to avoid it:

It's time for the Guild of Messengers to stop wasting time and do something. That's even more important now that MOUL has shut down - the lynchpin of the community is gone.

This is the same problem the DRC Liaisons and D'net had - they spent too much time trying to figure out who should do what, waiting for some else to do something and making sure everyone was okay with it and then doublechecking and wandering in and out doing other projects that nothing got done.

The Guildmaster and chairs don't need to be representatives or stewards, they need to be leaders. And we need them all in place yesterday.

I'm all for democracy, it's the best way to run a government. But I'm quickly coming to the opinion that it's a bad way to run an organization. I think that at this point it is more important that we have motivated people in place than they all be democratically elected. I think Marten should appoint the positions still open, with a 6 month term. One of the duties of these people is to decide by that point how the chairs will work long term, how they are elected (if election is the best option) and develop a long-term structure based off of their experience.

But we need to have an idea of what we are actually doing and be started on accomplishing that within a week or so. Otherwise, we're irrelevent.

Marten
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se unió: Nov 8 2007

Blade (& everyone else),

The people who are in the positions selected thus far have a pretty good idea of what they are getting into. For the remaining positions, the message I'm getting is that people want to know what they're agreeing to be a part of. And even for those first positions that are now filled, clarifying expectations is important... we all think we know what we've gotten into, but does everyone see it the same way?

Let me put it this way: We aren't discussing job positions because we think "Hey, we would like job descriptions." We are discussing them because I've heard people say, "What would I need to do as chair of X?"

What I've proposed to Lynnutte (and I'll propose here) is this: I will write up some job descriptions this weekend and post them here (that will be on Saturday). Everyone will have 2-3 days (the rest of Saturday, Sunday, and Monday) to discuss and offer changes. That's it. As you said, we need some things done "yesterday", so I think that discussion time is just enough time to involve those who care the most, and maybe get a little additional opinion too.

Clarity on the Reporter's chair position is what I feel we need the most; before Saturday, if people would offer up their ideas of what it should mean, that would be helpful to me.

On Tuesday, nominations and volunteers for the Reporter's chair position.

On Wednesday the 16th, I will PM Thend with a list of persons in the running for each chair position, and a list of people who're eligible (or ineligible, if that list is shorter) to vote for each of the chair positions.

Because the Reporter's Chair position will, as I understand it, be open to most anybody to vote... we must impose a time limit on that vote. My suggestion is that we let that run through Sunday the 20th.

10 days is a bit more than a week. Can you live with this?

A six month term sounds fine to me. At that time, we could give people the opportunity to step down if they like, and for others to volunteer if they'd like to run one of the positions. If someone steps down, and nobody volunteers to fill the position, the remaining guild chairs and guild master will need to resolve the situation. If there is only one candidate for a position, whether an incumbent or a new person offering to fill a vacancy... there's not much point in voting if your only alternative is to leave the spot open.

BladeLakem
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se unió: Nov 1 2007

I think it's a good compromise.

However, I think that some things need to happen more quickly. Maybe a call for volunteers? Someone needs to be found to back up Lial while she's gone.

If you run a service, is there anything you can do right now that'll help people? New forum areas? Or maybe we should stage a quiet take over of the Guild forums on the MOUL forums ;) (er I mean establish a presence..)

Maybe all of the liaisons should contact the people they are liaising (is that a word?) with, let them know we are still around and ask them what we can do for them?

Maybe get a newsletter out this week?

I just think we need to combat the immediate depression of the closure in some way.